So the next bit of a point is let's say scenarios whether or not the context of a Kollel should the should the Madrich and Mechanech who becomes aware of a camper who despite all of his best efforts is not on shul and not on davenen, needs to go ich veis at 8:10 think to go back and one more time wake them and clearly that's gonna be על חשבון זמן תפילה maybe it's on the tzibur similar scenario with Kriat HaTorah. The sort of the holistic issue is how one balances one's own ruchniyut as defined independently of the role of Madrich slash Mechanech, how one balances that with the responsibilities of being Madrich slash Mechanech. So to maybe at first talk a little bit about the some of the Sugya-specific examples and then a little bit about the holistic aspect. What what we're talking is where when we're talking and learning over lunch and and can't Chas v'Shalom not not not discuss the Sugya. I mean they they say from the Chaim Volozhiner about the Chaim didn't think much of what people say that the being yotzei Shalosh Seudos with Divrei Torah. So the Chaim said עסן קען מען נישט אפזאגן. So someone says a shtikel Torah, you can ask a gewaldig kasha on the shtikel Torah and be poreich and the whole shtikel Torah is ke-lo haya. Then you eat a piece of challah you eat a piece of challah no one can poreich on that. Baruch Hashem good lunch so whatever we're talking about we're talking about but but lunch is good but but lunch is... The first Sugya that comes to mind is I think the first time it appears the first time that you have the discussion in Yerushalmi and with the first peshiya in Gemara in Shabbos daph daled where the Mishna says פתיה בידיה או באומר לאדם חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך. The nidon there is where one person took a dough and was מדביק פת בתנור. So if the pas will remain in the oven and so then it's gonna bake and it will turn out that this person did a melacha on Shabbos b'shogeig. If someone else will do rdiyat hapas which is also d'rabbanan will peel the... they used to bake they used to the dough would would go to the side of the oven and rdiyat hapas is to peel it off. If someone would do rdiyat hapas which is also d'rabbanan it would save this person from a some some issur d'oreisa. The Gemara says it can't be that you tell the person to do that because אין אומרים לאדם חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך. You tell Reuven that Reuven should do something assur to save Shimon from to to be mezakeh to be mezakeh Shimon. So the Rishonim there Tosfos there and the Rashba the Rishonim try to figure out the klallim for when we say bitia or whenever we say אין אומרים לאדם חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך because there do seem to be certain exceptions in the Gemara. The Gemara says that a chaver will be מפריש תרומות ומעשרות של עם הארץ to save the am ha'aretz being nikhshal. If you have a חצי עבד וחצי בן חורין so כופין את רבו לשחררו even though ordinarily there's an asei v'oveir al asseh d'leolam bahem taavodu. There are other cases as well where where we do seem to tell Reuven to do an issur kal to save Shimon for from an issur chamor. So Tosfos basically has two klallim. the חצי שפחה וחצי בן חורין, so rabbim are being nichshal by her. The fact that she can't get married makes it a michshol for the rabbim and the rabbim are mezalzel by her, the rabbim are being nichshal by her. So for tzorech harabbim we do it and save others as well. The second klal Tosfos gives is that Tosfos says we don't, when we draw the line and say אין אומרים לאדם חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך, is where the chaveir was a poshea. But where the chaveir is not a poshea, so then we takka would say to a person, better you should do an issur kal and save other people from an issur chamur. According to both deios in Tosfos, if a campus didn't look up once, twice, three times and they're still not a davening, it's hard not to classify that as a pshia. And number two, when a person would be leaving davening, you're leaving tefillah b'tzibur, you're going for this yachid. There's no rabbim dimension here. There are some other answers in the Rishonim, but lemaaseh it's hard to imagine that one would really be machria at the end of the day that a person is supposed to be chotei because someone is being a poshea. Although the Ritva does say, one of the answers the Ritva gives there is just a fascinating teretz, which he says, you can't instruct someone to do it, but that doesn't mean that he can't volunteer to do it, which is a fascinating teretz. He says some of the stiros are resolved by no, we'll never instruct you to do it, but that doesn't mean that you of your own accord may not take the initiative to do it to be mezakeh chaveirecha. But maybe, maybe we should step back for a minute. Maybe what we're talking about is not omrim leadam chatei because maybe it should be talui on whether tefillah b'tzibur is a chiyuv or just a maalah. Maybe it should be talui on whether kerias hatorah is a chovas tzibur or a chovas yachid. So is there a tzad to say, is it legitimate to say that A, we should assume that tefillah b'tzibur is not a chiyuv but only a maalah kiyadua meharbe poskim? And would it be legitimate to say that kiyadua meharbe rishonim that kerias hatorah is a chovas tzibur or a chovas yachid? So would it be legitimate to say that we should assume that tefillah b'tzibur is a maalah and kerias hatorah is a chovas tzibur? So then it's not really חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך. So maybe that should change the equation. It's hard to see that. A, it's very hard, again, all this is the pilpul talking about. And the Rebbi used to tell a story that Rav Chaim was once traveling between cities on a train. So this wasn't 100 years ago, it was over 100 years ago, but there weren't trains every day, it wasn't the LIRR, the trains came every two, three days. And Rav Chaim disrupted his journey so that he wouldn't miss kerias hatorah on Thursday. Ad k'dei kach Rav Chaim was concerned with kerias hatorah as a chovas yachid that he was mevatel himself to strand himself some place for a day or two just so that he wouldn't be on the train on Thursday and miss kerias hatorah. The Igros Moshe also assumes that kerias hatorah is a chovas yachid. It's very hard to be machria that it's a chovas tzibur and not a chovas yachid. Same thing with tefillah betzibur, but very hard to say that. And number two, l'maiseh, even if one would adopt that position, kimidumeh the metzius says that aside from the mayloh of tefillah betzibur, many if not most people davven more bekavonah in tzibur than they do alone. The fact that you're surrounded by everyone else davvening, so achutz from the the official mayloh of of it being tefillah betzibur, just it mechazeik a person, it mechazeik a person's kavonah, maybe they davven a little slower, they davven less fast. The third consideration is that if it would be something that would have to be done again and again, l'maiseh when a person has to do things be'heter, some things that would ordinarily shouldn't be done, he does it be'heter, the reality of of human psychology is that it causes a yeridah. I've heard from people who say that they mamash know lots of cases, one case is too many, but lots of cases that doctors in the hospital, even if shabbos after shabbos, each shabbos mechalel shabbos was be'heter, there are cases where it causes a yeridah because a person needs the chizuk of keeping shabbos. Even if each chillul shabbos was be'heter, at a certain point there's a susceptibility to the person just not having that same harshoshah, the same rommus of shabbos. So the fact that something is be'heter doesn't mean that if a person is forced to do that time and time and time again that it doesn't cause a yeridah. The same thing is true here. I don't know, for six weeks morning after morning a person's going to run out of davvening, even if technically you can say, but l'maiseh it's going to cause a yeridah, so it's hard not to have it fall under the objective of חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך. But the metzius of all this is dugo bialmah because one thing is unequivocally clear lichurah, which is that חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך, even according to the rishonim who hold חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך, in every case it is one, it's the ultimate dechuyah, it certainly במקום שאפשר לקיים שניהם. So the pshetl is that whether it's in yeshivas, yeshiva high schools all year, or whether it's whether it's here, you have two needs. On the one hand you need madrichim who are davvening with the minyan to be mechazeik and for the bachurim to be role models when they davven. Me'idach gisah, you need madrichim to I don't know catch someone who's very late going to davvening, or to shush someone who's talking during davvening. So lichurah, if you have a handful of madrichim who I would think, I don't know, obviously it depends on whether the rebbe thinks it's a good idea, but I would think you have a handful of madrichim who davven early, who davven on the moshov, and then it makes efshar lekayem shneihem. You have the madrichim who are on patrol to help out the guys who weren't able or didn't respond to the wake-up, and they already davvened betzibur and they heard krias hatorah and they can, and then you have a lot of madrichim who are davvening with the tzibur, to be mechazeik the minyan and to serve as role models for the tzibur. Because to invoke any, whether literally חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך, or any type of even if technically it isn't חטא בשביל שיזכה חברך, but to sort of be mevater anything, it's only going to be be'ofen dechuyah, only when... It would seem, I don't know, maybe there are considerations that I don't know of, but which, which is very possible, why it's not possible, but if it's possible, so then it's le'choreh pashut that before a person is mevater on anything, before the system asks people to be mevater on anything, the system should be designed me'rosh not to require that, that, that, that vitor, that, that, again, quote "compromise," unquote. Le'choreh, and again, this is le'orech ha'olam as all these things are, I'm not making a, I'm not making a hafshat ha'davar, just le'orech velo l'omeq. What happens if for whatever reason bedieved a person accepted a position where he technically has such a shibud? Maybe because the system wasn't designed differently, or maybe because the system was designed differently, hacha v'hacha. Also, a person has some shibud, he does have a shibud. So I don't know, so then le'choreh you see from the poalim, Chazal mamash were mekatzer, were mekatzer Birchath Hamazon for poalim because of the shibud of the ba'al habayit. They, I don't know, it seems like the poalim didn't say Tzidkatcha Tzedek, I don't know, the Tosafos says that they said Krias Shema u-Berachoseha and tefillah. I don't know, I'm not sure that the poalim, again the poel is, is getting paid for a day's work. So anytime he spends davening is on the cheshbon of the ba'al habayit. So, so it's unbelievable, you see the, the what, what a person is supposed to give in terms of a poel, his shibud to the ba'al habayit. So I don't know, so everything we said notwithstanding, if lema'aseh a person accepted such a shibud, so then it's a different shailah entirely, because then maybe at that point he's a poel and adereba, you see the poalim are, they don't say Tzidkatcha Tzedek and Birchath Hamazon so that the poalim should lose less time from the ba'al habayit. So maybe that would be a different shailah. But the, the sikum of the pilpul is that any vitor, especially if it would be classified as קוצץ בשלשלת שלא שלא לקוצו is de'chuyah, which means that, that one should do one's best to design a system where it's not necessary and, and maybe there is a way to, to design such a, such a system. Just wanted to, to be me'orer one totally independent challenge in chinuch and not, again, unlike these prototypic applications which were drawn from kollel, this is more drawn from general impressions, nothing to do with summer zman, nothing to do with kollel. I, I don't begin to know the, the answer, but okay, I can't help myself, so only time for a question. What is a very big challenge in chinuch? Let's say on the high school level in particular, how to balance the following two considerations. On the one hand, a mechanech, be it the rebbe, be it the menahel, has to recognize the reality of who his talmidim are, where they're holding, and the chinuch has to be catered to that, who they are, where they're holding. And a 15-year-old in, in the United States today is not, by and large, to be mistaken for a 15-year-old running down the rechovos of Radin or Otvotzk. So obviously the chinuch needs to reflect that. But mei'idach gisa, one has to be careful that the chinuch shouldn't reinforce a, or even create a sense of... it's supposed to be realistic in terms of where the talmidim are holding, but it's not supposed to sort of reinforce where they're holding. It's supposed to be pushing them beyond that. Sometimes, I don't know, I, I very far from... Also that development, the fact that, the amount of fun which is now part of high school bachurim's schedules probably wasn't that way when I was a kid in prehistoric times. It wasn't that way when my kids went to school either, which is more recent, not so long ago, although in modern terms a long time, not so prehistoric times, not so medieval times either. I don't know, there's so much fun that's a part of high school. It's almost part of the curriculum, so many trips and so much fun. And sometimes I wonder, in ignorance, and I may be totally off base and off track with this, but sometimes I wonder whether that's the k'shita d'mishum of you have to be realistic in terms of whom the na'ar is that you're trying to be mashpia on him, and you have to do what you have to do to be mashpia on him, or whether that's just reinforcing an immaturity that exists in our society. There's no question that Western society, at least as it exists in America, and I suspect it's not so different in Europe, that let's say we hear stories about my great-grandfather got married shortly after his Bar Mitzvah, shortly after his Bar Mitzvah. So we hear stories like that and the mind boggles. So the truth is that again, it doesn't mean entirely what we think it means, they used to live by their parents after that happened, it wasn't as if they went off on their own, but af al pi chen, getting married at 13 years old. And when we're 13 years old we're so worried about intra-school sports and intra-school this and that. The contrast is a very, there's no question that our society impedes emotional maturity. And because American culture doesn't make any even realistic demands from even teens, it infantilizes them, it impedes that emotional maturity. So on the one hand that's part of the reality that a mechanech has to deal with and that's why he can't go over their heads, but on the other hand the mechanech has to make sure that he's dealing with that reality and not reinforcing that reality. So a person has to figure out what the balance is between again being realistic about who the chanichim are and on the other hand not just reinforcing that what's missing, but that realistically trying to fill it in. Thank you very much.