The intended topic and the parameters of this morning's shiur were not really clear to me as I was drawing up an outline. Accordingly, it's very possible that the orientation and focus of the shiur will be different than you anticipated. I apologize in advance for that. The shiur will focus and again, this is the sense that was conveyed to me, at first broadly and then specifically on inyanei tznius and on the yetzer hara for physical intimacy. Not to devalue, not to underestimate the importance of the emotional component in human relationships, but the understanding which I was given is that that's beyond the purview of today's yom iyun. It's true in Torah in general, but it's especially evident and conspicuous here, the intertwining of halacha and hashkafa. So at times it may seem that we're veering back and forth, but again, as much as possible, I'm trying to give a shiur this morning. The mishna in Avos, in Berachos, Sifrei, with which you're all familiar, ואהבת את ה' אלקיך בכל לבבך, levavecha with the two beits alluding to bishnei yetzarecha, yetzer hatov and yetzer hara. Chazal also said that were it not for the yetzer hara, a person wouldn't get married, a person wouldn't have children, wouldn't build a house, etc. And Chazal tell us that we shouldn't underestimate this yetzer hara. The Rambam quotes a few of these maamarei Chazal at the end of Hilchos Issurei Biah. אין לך דבר בכל התורה כולה שקשה לרוב העם לפרוש מן העריות והביאות האסורות.
There's nothing of comparable difficulty than adhering to the Torah's guidelines and restrictions when it comes to arayos, when it comes to illicit unions. אמרו חכמים בשעה שנתצוו ישראל על העריות בכו וקיבלו מצווה זו בתרעומת ובבכייה שנאמר בכה למשפחותיו על עסקי משפחות ואמרו חכמים גזל ועריות נפשו של אדם מתאווה להן ומחמדתן ואין אתה מוצא קהל בכל זמן וזמן שאין בהן פרוצין בעריות ובביאות האסורות.
There's never been a kahal which has been menukeh mikol avon in this area. So the yetzer hara of which Chazal speak is a very real one and a very strong one. However, it's very important to understand what Chazal mean by this term yetzer hara. What it doesn't mean is that it's intrinsically evil. Rather, yetzer hara as opposed to yetzer hatov means that inclination, that drive which we have for physical things, for devarim gashmiyim. The Torah refers to that, Chazal refer to that as a yetzer hara. The yetzer hatov is that netiya, that inclination and drive which we have for spiritual things. But not chas veshalom to suggest again that the yetzer is intrinsically ra. And this basically is the thrust of the famous hasaga which the Iggeret HaKodesh, which is meyuchas to Ramban, whoever the mechaber is, meyuchas to Ramban, has on the Rambam in Moreh Nevukhim. I'll just read you a few lines very quickly. הדרך האחד הוא כי חיבור זה הוא עניין קדוש ונקי כשהיה הדבר כפי מה שראוי. ואל יחשוב אדם כי בחיבור הראוי יש גנאי וכיעור.
That it's something degrading, that it's something ugly. Chalila mizeh. כי החיבור נקרא ידיעה. The Torah refers to it as yedia. Then he refers to what the Rambam quotes from Aristotle in Moreh Nevukhim, that it's gnay lanu. And says chalila chalila, how can you say such a thing? אין הדבר כמאמר החכם. that underlining, underlining this, this conception, this hashkafas olam with regard, again, to the yetzer hara is shemetz minus. Why? Because Aristotle goes on to say he didn't believe in creation, he believed the world was eternal. We who believe in creation, that Hakadosh Baruch Hu created the world, so how can you say that there's anything in the world which is intrinsically evil? So rachmana litzlan, that's to attribute to Hakadosh Baruch Hu a creation which is intrinsically evil. How can it be? כי פועלו אמת ופעולתו אמת says the Iggeres HaKodesh, it can't be that anything is intrinsically evil. And that is certainly the mainstream understanding of what yetzer hara means. Again, it's this netiya, it's this drive, again, very real, very strong for devarim gashmiyim, for physical things, but not rachmana litzlan that it means that it's intrinsically evil. Adaraba, when tempered, when tamed, when channeled properly and appropriately, so it's a source of kedusha as well. The Chovos HaLevavos are always easy to point out that Sefer Kedusha in the Rambam consists of Hilchos Ma'achalos Assuros and Hilchos Issurei Biah and Shechita which goes together with the Ma'achalos Assuros. That it's in these two realms where a person is challenged to cultivate kedusha in Ma'achalos Assuros and Issurei Biah. And of course the Rashi at the beginning of Parshas Kedoshim of כל מקום שאתה מוצא קדושה אתה מוצא גדר ערווה, perushim min ha’arayos. Now the attitude of halacha when it comes again to dealing with the yetzer hara in this area is on the one hand, and Rabbi Charlop mentioned this in his remarks as well, is on the one hand realistic and direct, yet on the other hand, certainly linguistically circumspect. For instance, the Gemara in Kesubos says that לעולם אל יוציא אדם דבר נבלה מפיו. A person should not speak in a vulgar way. A person should not speak explicitly when there's no need for it. And the Gemara gives the example that הכל יודעים כלה למה נכנסה לחופה, and yet it’s a davar nival, it’s vulgar to say it because there's no reason to do so. Similarly, the Rambam says that in his opinion the reason Hebrew is Lashon HaKodesh is because there is no explicit vocabulary, again, for dealing with such inyanim. Everything is with melitzas, everything is with melitzas, tashmish hamita, everything, the entire vocabulary that we have in this area, they're all euphemisms, they're all melitzas. And the Rambam says it's, again, there's nothing unclear about it, no comprehension is being sacrificed, but again, that circumspection in terms of language, again, without sacrificing any clarity in terms of what needs to be conveyed, is a hallmark, again, of the balance between being realistic and direct on the one hand and yet maintaining tznius even while not compromising that sense of realism. Parenthetically, it's worth commenting, again, soon bli neder in a few minutes we'll come to several concrete applications in this area, that most humor nowadays, most humor nowadays is not only tainted but is infected by such innuendo. That’s what people, that’s the material that's used for humor. And most contemporary humor comes under what Chazal call לעולם אל יוציא אדם דבר נבלה מפיו. And it's very important, sometimes, again, the influence by osmosis which contemporary society has on us often goes unnoticed. And sometimes one is sitting in a Torah environment, wherever it may be, wherever it may be, and humor is a very important tool. Humor is a very important tool. I think The Rav's son-in-law used to tell me that the Rav once said in the hesped, I think it was for one of the Rashei Yeshiva here, that that as it were to have a sense of humor is a kiyyum in ve-halachtah bi-drachav because Chazal tells us the Ribbono Shel Olam's schedule is, so Chazal say Ribbono Shel Olam is mesacheik im livyatan. So humor is a very important, very important tool. It often reflects a certain simchas hachaim which a ma'amin should have, a person should be happy to be alive, to be oved Hashem. It's a very important tool in terms of people who aren't humorous, don't suffer the fate I do, their audiences don't fall asleep on them, it keeps people awake, it draws them in, and then you're able to give divrei mussar, divrei Torah, divrei hisorerus. So humor is very, very important, so please don't misunderstand, I'm not, this is not a case of sour grapes, maybe it is, but anyway, at least, at least in Aseres Yemei Teshuva it's or she-domeh lei yoteir, it's definitely not a case of sour grapes. But again the humor that's used has to be naki. It can't have the kind of innuendo which contemporary humor has. Chazal didn't consider that humor. Chazal considered that, that a gzar din of l'tova even is affected by that. That לעולם אל יוציא אדם דבר לא נקי מפיו. But on the other hand, this circumspection which Chazal insisted upon in this area again in no way, in no way compromised Chazal's realism, the Torah's realism in dealing in this area. For instance again, the issur, again, with which we're all familiar, of לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה, לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה. So here just again parenthetically there's a Gemara in Shabbos, again not dealing with our inyanim, but which is very relevant basically in any area where a person has to talk about divrei Torah, again often to audiences, again it may be in your future as a mechanech, it may be in your future as a rav to people who need to be motivated, who need to be inspired to observe divrei Torah, right, not necessarily that you're not always going to be talking to a group of people who are already totally motivated and totally inspired and just waiting to hear what the dinim are ke-shulchan aruch. So that's, that's a wonderful bracha if a person speaks to such an audience. But very often again that's what the nature of the melacha of hachachma is, be it a chinuch, be it rabbonus, is that very often people need to be inspired, people need to be motivated to observe the dinim. So there's a remarkable Gemara in Shabbos, if appreciated, the Gemara at the end of bameh madlikin, or the Gemara talks about the din of מכבה הנר מפני פיקוח נפש. So the Gemara has the whole long sugya and the, that the question was posed to the Chachamim, is it permissible to be mechabbeh ha-neir mipnei, if, if some situation of pikuach nefesh? And the Gemara says they answered that מוטב שתכבה נרו של בשר ודם ואל תכבה נרו של הקדוש ברוך הוא.
Better that this candle which is the handiwork of human beings, better that that be extinguished rather than the candle, i.e., נר השם נשמת אדם, the candle of ha-kadosh baruch hu. So Rashi comments, Rashi says this isn't really the, speaking technically, rigorously, this isn't really the makor for the din of pikuach nefesh. The makor for the din of pikuach nefesh of course as we know from the sugya in Yoma is וחי בהם ולא שימות בהם. However it was necessary to, to couch it, to frame it, to frame it in דברי אגדה המושכים את הלב. This is something remarkable, even though again this is not the makor, I don't know, one might have thought maybe, but that's what the Gemara says, that things have to be presented in a way which is moshchei es ha-leiv. Certainly in this forum when you're in, let's say, as mechanchim, if one is dealing with youth who are bothered by the seeming extremism and stringency of the dinim of לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה, right, that any kind of, any kind of negiah which is presumed to bespeak chiba is absolutely categorically assur. So it seems again to people who are not really bnei torah, so it seems very extreme. So it needs to be explained that this is, this is... It's not enough just to say the piskei dinim when you when you teach, when you educate. It has to be in a בדרך המושכת אל הלב. It's very important to explain that psychologically, psychologically total abstinence is much easier and much more realistic than partial partial abstinence. That to tell to tell a a dating couple that they can't even hold hands again it's it's seems right it seems very extreme and and kalei da'as who don't know anything are are mali'igim over such dinim. But the reality is the psychological reality is that it's a lot easier to comply with that than were we not to have these strictures of לא תקרבו לגלות ערוה then it would be to be allowed to arouse and inflame passions and then say עד כאן ולא יוסיף that psychologically that is a thousandfold more difficult and this is a perfect example again of the realism which the Torah which Chazal have in this area and again it's it's 100 1,000% psychologically true as well. The same of course again many of the things you know even if couched in terms of what mechanchim tell the youth obviously the same thing applies in terms of rabbanim trying to trying to motivate and inspire people בדרך המושכת את הלב to observe the harchakos which exist between a husband and wife b'eis niddusa. Again it's the same psychological reality which drives these harchakos as well. Let's just mention one or two general halachos very relevant in this area and then come to consider some concrete applications. So first of all one of the again just reviewing devarim yeduyim lachem certainly one of the the important mekomos the Gemara has in Avodah Zarah a whole series of applications of the issur of ונשמרת מכל דבר רע that a person is supposed to safeguard himself against provoking hirhurim, hirhurim which then in turn can lead to zera l'vatalah. So the braisa and Gemara give the following examples: שלא יסתכל אדם באשה נאוה that a person shouldn't look at at an attractive woman ולא בחמור ולא בחמורה ולא בחזיר ולא בחזירה ולא בעופות בזמן שנזקקים זה לזה
again which is not not uncommon when you when you walk on the street animals niska-kin ze laze that all these things are prohibited because of ונשמרת מכל דבר רע and again what it means the Chazal give these particular examples but it means anything which a person knows that according to his teva are likely to trigger hirhurim. Similarly another very important din to be aware of that again it has many applications in Shulchan Aruch in Hilchos Shabbos in Siman Shin Zayin where the Mechaber is discussing what a person may speak about on Shabbos what a person may read on Shabbos so the Mechaber writes ומליצות ומשלים של שיחת חולין ודברי חשק כגון ספר עמנואל וכן ספרי מלחמות אסור לקרות בהם בשבת ואף בחול משום מושב לצים ועובר משום אל תפנו אל האלילים אל תפנו אל מדעתכם ובדברי חשק איכא איסורא משום מגרה יצר הרע ומי שחיברן ומי שהעתיקן ואין צריך לומר המדפיסן מחטיאים את הרבים.
So again the issurim again of moshav leitzim and the added issur of megareh to incite the yeitzer hara and the specific application which the Shulchan Aruch gives here of sifrei cheshek. Again it's... Literature curriculums or even leisure reading certainly has to be chosen and selected with this in mind and again given the dor hapirtzos in which we live it's not a question of our kanous or our extremism it's a question of the extremism of the society in which we live which is a distinction which is very important for people to recognize. People like to talk nowadays it's very trendy and stylish to talk about how everything is drifting to the right and how everything is becoming chareidi. So this is not the time to discuss that topic but one perspective on it there are others which are important as well but certainly one perspective is that even when a person stays where he is there's a certain withdrawal from society and from popular culture which is imposed upon a person when that popular culture becomes extreme. So it's not a question necessarily of a person changing his values his colors or stripes but if the popular culture in the society in which one lives becomes increasingly porous so that can only translate into more of a withdrawal from that popular culture. Okay now what are some of the applications let's say which mechanchim should raise with their talmidim again with some of these general perspectives in mind and with some of these specific halachos of ונשמרתם מכל דבר רע, moshav leitzim, and giruy yetzer hara in mind. Again not listing in necessarily in terms of importance different things relate to different age groups and of course how to speak about it in a דרך המושכת על הלב again obviously has to be tailored and geared to the specific audience. But certainly mechanchim need to alert students to the impermissibility of listening to rock music or anything of that sort. Many many years ago when I began teaching some of the first years I was teaching in the high school so sometimes I used to ride the high school transportation. So we once had a discussion about this and I told them you can't listen to it's megareh yetzer hara all the lyrics are about znus that's the only theme. So one boy said no it's not true. So I asked him okay so give me examples. Think of all the songs you know he was a baki in the field. So review in your mind whatever you know and give me examples. So he sat there sat there thought and thought searched the memory bank exhaustively and finally said he thinks there are three songs where the lyrics are not about znus and that's takka mamosh. So it's clearly and again Baruch Hashem Baruch Hashem the Jewish music field has exploded there's what to listen to it's not a question of people don't have anything not that that would be a justification anyway but certainly it needs to be explained again דרך המושכת על הלב the dangers and how it's just enough to totally undo. You can sit in yeshiva for eight hours and you can sit in front of a blatt gemara but if on the way on the bus you're listening to this and on the way home on the bus you're listening into it it's enough to contradict and uproot and overwhelm whatever immersion you have in kedusha and in inyanei kedusha during the course of the day. Similarly it's again we're talking about different age groups again as appropriate social dating obviously again is another area where mechanchim need to speak to talmidim about. Reb Moshe has a teshuvah about it and again it's quite clear that again the intense is certainly megarei yetzer hara, is certainly משמרתם מכל דבר רע and many other things which are very, very unhealthy. On the other hand, and again here this probably needs to be more reinforced or discussed in talking with bnei torah, and this is part of the realism of the torah of chazal when dating appropriately, at the appropriate age and stage in life, in terms of the qualities which one seeks in one's bashert, so certainly physical attraction is something significant. And this needs to be understood. Dehainu, certainly it's part of tikkun hamiddos that each one of us as much as possible should make sure that there's no excess in terms of the Rambam's shvil hazahav, that there's no excess when it comes to taiva. And certainly that's a part of tikkun hamiddos and certainly a person again at any age and stage in life, but certainly when entering into parshas shidduchim, it's certainly something which hopefully a person is on the right course in terms of the middah of taiva on the one hand versus perishus on the other hand. But me'idach gissa, a person also has to be realistic about where he is. Dehainu, that a person can't go, a person can't tell himself שקר החן והבל היופי, it's not important, it's not important, if the reality is that the person knows honestly, doesn't have to discuss this with anyone else. If he needs to, he can discuss it with his rebbe. If he doesn't need to, he doesn't even need to discuss it with him. If the reality is that a person knows, he looks in the mirror and he sees, he knows exactly how strong his yetzer hara is and he knows that he's only going, that what the gemara in Yevamos says that דיינו שמצילות אותנו מן החטא, that if nothing else if a person has no shalom bayis, if a person has nothing else out of marriage, that דיינו שמצילות אותנו מן החטא, that a person has to know where he stands again in terms of what level of physical attraction is necessary to achieve that and a person has to be realistic. Again, that should come on the heels of a tikkun hamiddos so that that doesn't result in a person marrying leshem hayofi, of tznu'i mifei veyofi. But again, that doesn't mean that a person is supposed to just say well the ideal is שקר החן והבל היופי. No, a person has to be realistic. And Shabbos says about how Abu d'Shmuel used to counsel his daughters about how they should they should be attractive to their husbands. The Shulchan Aruch says again that the kavana shelo yecheto is one of the kavanos for tashmish hamitah. It's one of the kavanos in addition to being mekayem mitzvas onah and to be mekayem peru urevu, to molid children in the avodas hashem, this is also one of the kavanos. While on that topic, it's also important that bnei torah should know, and again in one's role as a mechanech, one is called upon often probably in private to impart this, that if a ben torah does struggle with the yetzer hara, if a ben torah does find himself at times beset by hirhurim, so again obviously yes, the one should try to find strategies bederech hateva, strategies bederech segulah to be nitzal from that 100%, one shouldn't be complacent about that, but me'idach gissa, chas v'shalom that such a person or again that as a mechanech or as mechanchim that we allow such a person to feel as though he is a hypocrite or something because he has such because he has hirhurim or because he has such struggles with the yetzer hara. The gemara Bava Basra says that there are three things and אין אדם ניצל מהם בכל יום and one of them the gemara says is hirhurim. So again, there's a balance here, a very delicate balance that needs to be maintained. On the one hand we're not complacent about it and the person again in terms of shemiras einayim which is another thing which certainly needs to be emphasized. In terms of complying with giri d’yatzra hara and also kayaduah that it's a segulah for for kedushah, shemiras einayim. So on the one hand again all of these and such strategies, right, that's why all of us say the first, right, we say the first four kapitlach of Tehillim the night of Yom Kippur because it's a segulah to be nitzal from keri, the night of the night of Yom Kippur. So here we are standing in our kittel, right, k'malachim and again we're still we're still realistic in terms of the yeitzer hara. So certainly one should look for all the tachbulos again such as shemiras einayim and some of the tachbulos are physical ones also. Some of the tachbulos are that if if talmidim come and say they have problems with hirhurim or even with zera levatalah, so exercise is very important. Exercise is is an important outlet. So certainly again this in more private counseling than in public, a person, a mechanech certainly should give guidance. On the other hand, it's very important also to give reassurance that yes, don't be complacent, don't accept it as a given, do your best to overcome it, but know that these struggles are normal and natural as is evident from that Gemara in Bava Basra. Similarly, again in terms of the realism, again these things again we're ranging over different age groups and therefore will be relevant to mechanchim on different levels. Engaged couples once they spend the necessary amount of time to get to know each other and to make as informed a decision and commitment as they can. So number one the engagement should be short rather than long. Mechanchim should certainly counsel and advocate that that unless there are extenuating circumstances there's no reason to have a prolonged engagement, it should be a shorter engagement rather than a longer one. And during that time of engagement there should be clear understanding between chosson and kallah that they're going to perhaps cut back on the amount of time they spend together because again the nisayon then when the emotions are riding very high and and there's a lot of passionate feelings, so certainly the nisyonos then are very very great. And it comes under what the Mesillas Yesharim says that ve'asisa mishmeres lemishmarti is not simply to comply with those syagim which Chazal laid down but also whenever a person knows that he himself has a certain weak point, so a person is supposed to have a self-imposed syag to try to bolster himself in that area. And as long as it's understood between the between the two, between the chosson and kallah that this is not because of any kind of apathy, it's not it's not misunderstood or misconstrued, so then it certainly is healthy that there should be less time spent together during the period of the engagement simply to minimize nisyonos. The Gemara in Sanhedrin says that אל יביא אדם עצמו לידי נסיון because Dovid HaMelech, מי לנו גדול כמותו, invited nisayon and failed. In terms of the gedarim of issur histaklus, Rav Moshe explains in in a few places in Igros Moshe. And again this is something which which we need to know, which talmidim need to be told, that in mekomos megulim the issur is only al menas leihanos but in mekomos mechusim so there there's an issur histaklus even even if it's not al menas leihanos. One issue which from different vantage points is equally relevant to mechanchim and to rabbanim is there’s a certain notion which some parents still have, and the notion in its original context was correct and perfectly understandable, that getting married means that you should be financially self-sufficient. And again, in its correct context, that's true, right? Chazal say ללמדו תורה דרך ארץ שלעולם ילמד אדם אומנות ואחר כך ישא אשה.
So it's certainly in the correct context, it's true. Ella mai, the educational system that we have and the type of training that's necessary for most jobs, so you have to graduate college and for many, many fields you have to go beyond college as well, and there becomes a total inconsistency between Chazal's advocating early marriage and the לעולם ילמד אדם אומנות ואחר כך ישא אשה. That by and large, those two are totally incompatible within our society. Chazal said it, Chazal were talking about at age 13 you became an apprentice. You were an apprentice for five years, and by age 18, so you were a trained blacksmith, so you were ready to earn your parnassah. So don't go against, don't buck the system, don't postpone your apprenticeship, but do like everyone else and take that apprenticeship at age 13 or whatever the precise age was. But again, that simply doesn't work in our educational economic system. It simply doesn't work. And because of that, now of course you need to be mature to get married and of course you need to be a responsible person, but the barometer for that in today's society, whether a 21 or a 22 or whatever the age is year old is ready to get married in today's society can't be measured by whether or not he's financially self-sufficient. And in terms of trying again bederech hamshachat halev to impart that to parents, so rabbonim, that's certainly worthy of an occasional drasha. And again mechanchim who are dealing with people that age also should encourage talmidim that if they're mature enough and all other things are in place, that again this notion again which in its correct context was true, in its correct context still true, but in our context it's not true. There simply is a disparity between what the Gemara tells us in Kiddushin, the Gemara says that Amar Rav Chisda, and again, obviously the point is not the specific ages which Chazal say because we're certainly too immature at these ages, but the point is to illustrate the premium on once a person is ready to get married emotionally in terms of maturity and the like. Again, there's also the cheshbon hakol matir which is not our focus at the moment. But Amar Rav Chisda, האי דעדיפנא מחבראי דנסיבנא בשיתסר ואי הוה נסיבנא בארבעסר הוה אמינא לשטן גירא בעינך.
He said the reason I surpass my chaverim in learning, in Talmud Torah, because I got married younger. I got married younger, and if I lived more bekedusha u'vetahara and if I had gotten married even younger, so then I could've laughed in the Satan's face. Now again, none of this is to overlook the prerequisite or indispensability for emotional readiness and maturity and the like, but the point is, the point is, but it shouldn't be the old standard of financial self-sufficiency in terms of when a person gets married. And again from different angles, from different vantage points, that's something which both mechanchim and rabbonim want to try to talk about. And finally, just we have a couple of minutes left, just to mention perhaps a couple of other things which rabbonim, again bederech hamshachat halev, they have to know when the time is right, they have to know if the time is right, but again all things being equal, it's certainly something which they want to be able to talk about. One of the dinim it says in which the Shulchan Aruch quotes is that when it comes to arayos such as an isha niddah, so it's also אסור להריח בשמים שעליה. That a man is not supposed to smell the perfumes that a woman is wearing. Now again, the smelling when a person is within a certain proximity is that from the time she'higiu l'perkon and beforehand it's for other reasons obviously inappropriate that for women to wear perfume which carries with it a scent that the man walking by on the street or standing in the elevator just innocently will be able to detect is wrong. It's against that din in Shulchan Aruch and again it needs to be presented בדרך המושכת הלב in terms of in terms of ideals of tznius and ideals of kedusha not in some crude way rachmana litzlan. But again within the correct context developing what the idea of that tznius has to do with privacy and that what's hidden is more kadosh. So within that context and coming at the end of such a drasha so certainly this is a din which is not widely enough known and needs needs to be taught. Similarly the concern and sensitivity to giruy yetzer hara doesn't doesn't end when one makes it through one's adolescent years. It doesn't even end when a person gets married. Certainly a person is less susceptible to it because of pas besalo but by no stretch of the imagination is a person immune to it. There's a saying in Yiddish זאל דאס נישט טרעפן ווי עס טרעפט זיך but certainly things shouldn't happen the way they do happen, right? Things things shouldn't be the way they are, but certainly people need to be aware of issues of giruy yetzer hara in the workplace, whether it's working closely with a secretary or something. But that's also again without being מוציא דבר נבל מפיו in the right context בדרך המושכת הלב is also something which rabbonim need again kefi chochmasam in knowing who they're talking to and when's the best time, right? There's some things which rabbonim which rabbonim can only get away with saying on Shabbos Shuva. So this time of year again if you're going into rabbonus so sometimes the people don't don't like to hear again even if it's couched as as as skillfully as possible בדרך המושכת הלב sometimes depending upon the kehila people don't want to hear it. And then a person has to know. But certainly the Shabbos Shuva drasha shouldn't be squandered on a pilpul. Certainly certainly rabbonim should take advantage of it again kefi chochmasam knowing their kehila knowing how how to talk, knowing how much can be said without without it being overloading and people just tuning out, but certainly should take advantage of when there are windows of opportunity. Again this time of year if there's a drasha before the first night of slichos as many shuls have is also a sha'as hachosher a little bit less so Shabbos Hagadol because people are not that much in that frame of mind, but the rabbonim should certainly again be sensitive to maximizing those those moments of opportunity to perhaps broach again some of these delicate issues. So I hope we should all be zocha ואהבת את ה' אלקיך בכל לבבך ובכל נפשך ובכל מאדך
and with your machshava as well. Rabbi Twersky has agreed to take a few questions if there are those who have specific situations, shailos, anything about the shiur or otherwise. There's a microphone in the back. If I could ask someone to take the microphone off the table in the back and just bring it forward. Any questions? I want to before there's even a question asked thank Rabbi Twersky and Rabbi Arlow. Although spiritually this is an ideal time beferat b'yomei d'iyuma logistically it has been very difficult and I'm very appreciative of their agreement to participate and the hours of preparation that were required. Are there any questions? Got it? For obvious reasons the... And some even the general principles in this area are focused very very much on men and boys. Are there any guidelines with regard to these issues for girls and women that are any more specific than just the very general principles? The question is a good one and a very important one. Just to in response just two points. Number one, much of what we spoke about is equally applicable. Again, for instance, that Seif in Shulchan Oruch which is just of the, it's difficult to exaggerate its relevance, that Seif in Shulchan Oruch about Moshav Leitzim and אל תפנו אל האלילים and Girei d'Yitzra, so nothing in that is gender-specific. Now it is true that there are more restrictions on men than women and I mean not to rationalize Halacha but certainly the explanation has been suggested that again in terms of susceptibility to Hirhurim and the like that in general men are more susceptible than women. And for that reason for that reason there are certain restrictions on men which don't necessarily have a parallel for women. For instance when the Gemara says that Kol Isha Erva. So even if a person says I know that I'm not going to that it's not going to be Miorer anything in me, so it's Assur. Kol Isha Erva. There is no comparable Issur for a woman. If she's not going to be affected by listening to a man, obviously there is no comparable Issur for a woman. I think Rabbi Willig mentioned in his English Sefer Hilchos Niddah talks about and suggests and mentions what if she knows that she will be affected by it? So that's a different point. Not talking about that. But in terms of the categorical prohibition. So you're entirely right that there are more guidelines for men than for women. And again presumably because of Bederech Klal לא דיברה תורה אלא כנגד היצר that men are more susceptible than women. But again in terms of Girei d'Yitzra and the like, that that is nothing gender-specific about that and many of the applications of which we spoke about I think are also equally relevant. Sorry guys. The first was a very good question and I just wanted to give a bit of perspective as I speak with frum groups. While there is not that much Halacha with the women, the fact of the matter is building up your Avodas Hashem is certainly true on either side. Very much a problem for us. What I wanted to discuss in my answer was that I've dealt with these issues directly with women. Of course through the frame of Taharas Mishpacha, what I'm really speaking about is sexuality vis-a-vis modern women at that time. It's a different breed today than even in my my time was very modern. But the fact of the matter is that through that implement of sexuality, I don't want to use the term Ish Isha speaking to women groups in the congregation, small clusters, large clusters, I've had women go into Taharas Mishpacha before their husbands start to work. I've had women go into Taharas Mishpacha vis-a-vis even to kosher. So I just want to give a different point, not really on the Halacha itself but the opportunity to reach the family. Sometimes the first window that opens up to you happens to be the woman and in this area. Are there additional questions? I was just wondering how as educators and Rabbonim how we balance the Midos v'Shitos for kids and congregants that are not going, they are not... I'm sorry, I'm a musician with the buzzer. How do we balance kids and congregants who are grown up in an environment and a culture where these things are so foreign to them in terms of what we tell them and what we don't tell them? Like let's say a couple comes to you and they're just not capable of all the restrictions in terms of how you evaluate telling them to go to mikvah or not? What things are going to be too uncomfortable? What are the chances that it'll turn them off? These kinds of things, like certain mitzvos in certain communities that are less... not careful, but not as makpid on certain things so as not to turn people away? And they're clearly... I'm unsure of how to draw the line of when... when to balance the obligation to tell people what halacha is, as the Rosh Yeshiva has outlined, and when we know that some of the kids in our Yeshiva high schools are simply not holding there? So I thank you very much for the question because I think it indicates that maybe something I said a few times during Mincha I should have elaborated on. So I thank you very much for the question. The Rambam has in Moreh Nevukhim, he spends a long time talking about this, spends a long time talking about gradualism. Ad k'dei kach, the Rambam takes this to such extremes, kayadua, that the Rambam says that again in terms of weaning people away from avodah zarah, so even that couldn't be done abruptly. Even that had to be done gradually. Ad k'dei kach, and again this kayadua, the Ramban and others take the Rambam to task for this, but the Rambam says that really korbanos was a vestige of avodah zarah, but it was just would have been too much of a shock to the system to again just abruptly abruptly terminate that, so because of that the Torah redirects it l'shemayim. So obviously the particular historical explanation for korbanos is very controversial and in that the Rambam is certainly very much a da'as yachid, but the principle of gradualism, in that he's very much in the mainstream. And that certainly is the guiding principle again whether one's dealing... a rav dealing with baalei batim in a Modern Orthodox community or a mechanech dealing with kids from such homes. 100%, a person has to try to have a chush for what people are ready to hear. And there is... not only is there no mitzvah, no chiyuv, but one shouldn't volunteer information that people are not yet ready to process, that people cannot yet handle. To be talking about in Modern Orthodox communities where there may be issues as to whether or not all the women go to the mikvah, to be talking about wearing a sheitel is ludicrous. First see to it that there's taharas hamishpacha in the community. Then when you've brought the community up to where there's no chayvei krisos, rachmana litzlan, so then you can move on to other things as well. And 100%, so one certainly has to be guided both with kids as well as with adults by this theory of gradualism. And because of that there's no hard and fast rule because it's going to depend ba'asher hu sham in terms of your chush or whoever the mechanech or rav is, that person's chush on what the people are ready for. In addition, as mechanchim there's the added consideration in terms of what they're ready for is if even if the kid is ready, let's say he comes from a home where the standards of kashrus are, to be charitable, lax. And you see that the kid is really inspired. You see that neshamah tehorah. And you know that he's ready for more. But the cheshbon is not only is he personally ready to be nizhar more consistently in kashrus, the question also is what are the repercussions going to be on the home in terms of is it going to create conflict between parents and kids? And is he ready to deal with that? So part of the question of readiness when... to deal with whatever fallout there may be in terms of ill will or even open conflict in the home. It becomes trickier. Someone once asked me, he was involved in a kiruv situation. He wanted to know, he didn't think that if he told them about the Hilchos Niddah with בנות ישראל החמירו על עצמן for shiva neki'im, he didn't think that they were going to commit themselves to at least twelve days every month. So he wanted to know, could he tell them about the d'Oraisa of Niddah and not tell them about the בנות ישראל החמירו על עצמן. So shortly thereafter, Rav Dovid Feinstein was here for, he spoke on behalf of Chinuch Atzmai, so I had a chance to, I asked him, and he said that he thought that you were not allowed to do that. That already, there's a difference between again not volunteering information which people are not ready to process than between already slanting things and sort of encouraging and legitimizing this kind of partial observance, partial fulfillment. So he thought that one would not be allowed to just tell them what the d'Oraisa is and encourage them to fulfill the d'Oraisa without the d'Rabbanan. But again, but presumably, presumably he would agree that if they're not ready to hear it at all and telling them now about Taharas Hamishpacha, you'll lose them. They're coming to shul and they're getting excited and they're coming to adult education classes and they're thinking about moving closer so they'll be within walking distance on Shabbos. But if you hit them over the head now by telling them Taharas Hamishpacha, so you're going to scare them off. So of course you don't say anything and you wait, you wait until they experience more of Shabbos and until their enthusiasm is greater for Yiddishkeit and then you have to figure when the right moment is. Any additional questions? Okay, how would Rebbe address the issue of today's teenager or the like who is obviously good at heart and has good intentions, but just doesn't feel personally that they're ready to go ahead and move forward? And they feel that it's something that they would like to do in the future, but at the present stage of their lives they're just not interested, they're not ready to go ahead and take those further steps towards whatever it happens to be, not listening to music or not negi'ah or etc., any of the issues that we spoke about. How would you suggest that they be dealt with? I think that the response is very much along the lines of the previous question, that again on the one hand, on the one hand obviously you can't censor Shulchan Aruch. On the one hand obviously no one's legitimizing breaches in the walls of halacha. But on the other hand, to draw a line in the sand Rachmana l'shizlan with a teenager and tell them listen, you're either with us or against us. Either you're a shomer Torah, either you're a ma'amin and therefore you don't listen to rock music and therefore you don't touch girls, or you're mikhutz lamachaneh. Rachmana l'shizlan to do such a thing. You can alienate kids like that and lose them like that. So what do you do? Again, you try as inspirationally as possible to talk about it, try to motivate, try to inspire, but chas v'shalom never to draw a line in the sand and say no, you're either with us or against us again on when there's clearly potential as they become more mature and perhaps as they either become less susceptible to peer pressure or they find themselves in a different environment when they will graduate to that in general. breaches in halacha. You push too much, too hard, so it's like when you try to overextend a rubber band, so then it just snaps. So if you do it gradually and it loosens up, so then you're able to get it to its maximum. If without loosening it you just indiscriminately and foolishly pull, so then it snaps, Rachmana litzlan. And the same thing is with kids, is with people. And again, so certainly you don't, you don't draw, you don't draw a line in the sand. Again, there may be a time when you think, there may be a time, I know so-and-so, someone was once a ba'al teshuvah, was wanting to recount his experiences. And he said, you know, that if he had begun going to shul where he lived, and was enjoying it, and was going to shiurim and was enjoying it, and enjoyed being with frum people and talking about it, but wasn't being shomer mitzvos yet. Then he said that once on Shabbos, someone said to him, you know, you like this so much, it speaks to you, so why don't you make a commitment? So again, it requires chochmah to know what the timing is, that sometimes it is appropriate to issue a challenge. And he said that that challenge came at the right time and that when that person said that to him, so he stopped and thought and said, you know what, you're right. There's no reason for me to continue to be פוסח על שתי הסעיפים. So you know, usually adolescent years is not necessarily the time for that, for that challenge, but 100% that again, it's part of the gradualism, it's part of the עשה לך חכמה שכל which is the mandate of every mechanech, everyone in kiruv, of every rav, that sometimes, again, that, you know, sometimes a challenge is, you know, so now, you know, so maybe you're ready for full shemiras Shabbos, you're ready for this. And it requires, again, a lot of sensitivity to know when that time is because Rachmana litzlan, to issue a challenge at the wrong time can have terrible, terrible consequences. Yasher koach. To conclude, before Rabbi Israel, Rabbi Israel quoted from one of the pieces of our Gemara today in the end of Sotah on 48a. Toward the end of Sotah, the Gemara is talking about something relating to Rabbi Turetsky's point of gradualism. It tells us, and it has to do with kol isha, eruvah, and they say זמרי גברי ועני נשי, it's a pritzuta, and זמרי נשי ועני גברי, ke-eish b'neores, fire in the flax. So the Gemara wants to know what's, what's the difference? Is this pritzuta, certainly this is pritzuta? He says, we have to know haidi meka haidi. And Rashi says, if you're in a community, this is exactly what Rashi says, and you know they wouldn't accept both of the things, just tell them the first thing. You have to work gradually. This is Rashi, Rashi says it expressly. If there was a Rashi, so it's possible that Rashi would have been in a community where he was, and he would have heard men singing and women responding, he may not have said anything that often, but if he saw the reverse, he would say you have to be dageish because near the end of Gemara Sotah, amud aleph. Yasher koach. I want to just make one quick comment before we move to the next part of the program this morning, the panel discussion. And that is, just to go into something that Rabbi Turetsky mentioned in passing, and that is, that within what we term for lack of a better term Modern Orthodoxy, there seems to be a lot of confusion between what openness to society means and acceptance of everything in the world. And I just want to share quickly that one of my, one of my sermons at the Young Israel of Stamford dealt with a situation I found in my congregation where I found from shomer Shabbos families, makpid on kashrus, certainly makpid on taharas hamishpacha, and I start hearing them talking about a particular morning radio show. And I was just stunned, I don't know for, I hope you don't even know what I'm referring to. But there are, there's certain morning radio shows that are going on the public airwaves that are full of language and ideas which are such an anathema to our tradition that I could not believe that my congregants were exposing themselves to this. And so I just recall that I made a sermon about this issue that openness does not mean acceptance of everything that's there. That being willing to turn on a radio doesn't mean you should listen to everything that comes over the airwaves. There are choices that have to be made. There are values that come from the Torah which have to instruct us when to change the channel. I want to invite Mrs. Braun now to come forward and we'll begin the panel discussion and the discussion of the case studies, which I hope you picked up on your way in.